[Ben]

I'm starting to add these into my routine, to help my grip as well as my deadlift.

What are the best way to peform this movement?

Barbell? Dumbbell?

-Infront of thighs?
-Behind thighs?
-Unilateraly (Left then Right) by the side of the thigh?

Strictly? Explosively?

Cheers.

[Andy]

Ben,

You can do much better exercises to help with grip and deadlift. Shrugs alone won't help your deadlift.

If you are going to do them then strict form should be used. Time and time again i see people rolling their shoulders trying to get a "full ROM". This just puts to much pressure on the surrounding rotator cuff muscles and on the should joint.

I would personally do something like hang cleans pulls or hang snatch pulls. Will work your grip more and will help with some hip drive and power development at the same time. Really emphasis on the shrug if need be but believe me you'll feel it in the traps anyway.

Farmers walks may help with grip also and with active shoulder you'll get some upper trap work.

Other than that, deadlifting will help your deadlift. What area of the deadlift needs improving? Is it the initial pull? Is it from knee? Hip extension?

Just a few ideas bud

[Ben]

Cheers Andy!

I'll give them ago then, http://uk.youtube.co...feature=related is this what you mean? and then for the snatch pulls, just use a snatch grip.

One problem i've just thought of is today i'm doing squat, bench, power clean, I was thinking of putting in the shrugs after the cleans, would it be overkill if i did these hang clean/snatch pulls (due to them being after the power cleans) ?

Cheers again.

EDIT, sorry just saw your last question.. Yeah it's the initial pull.

[Rich]

Andy nailed it when he said "deadlifting will help your deadlift".

Assistance work for the deadlift should be added if an obvious area of weakness is holding it back. But it should be added after you've deadlifted your arse off. Jet did a good Korte cycle on the deadlift...

[Andy]

yes that's it and yes to the snatch grip also.

Ideally you would do the power work first before any other work but this also depends on what you are trying to achieve. If the power cleans are just to work on technique and with minimal weight them doing them at the end is ok. If you are going for greater weight then i would do these first. With this in mind you could just do some pull work at the end to get a feel for what's going to be going on from now on. work on technique possibly to start with rather than ramping the weight up. Also, if you are doing power cleans today then maybe leave the pulls for another day. You could work on the initial pull work today. Just do initial pull off the floor and don't go above knee. Keep really good back position and work on high/medium reps/low weight if you haven't done this before. This way you can get used to how this will feel.

Again just a few ideas. I know what it's like when you have something in your head you want to go and do it - you just wanna do it regardless of what people say.

[Ben]

OK I understand what you mean.

I think I'll forget the shrugs or pulls for today then, and think about it after today's session.

That's a good point you bring up though, and one i've always wanted to question Mark for his answer to the order in his starting strength workouts. (that's what i'm following btw, well an every-so slightly modified version) And that describes, squat -> bench -> power clean. Myself, like you said, would have thought the explosive/olympic exercises would be put first.

[Andy]

possibly as it's a strength program the emphasis would be on the strength work with some power based stuff to supplement. An olympic based program consists of the oly lifts, their variations and supplemental movements (high pull, heave presses, snatch balance etc) with some strength exercises always included (squat, press and their variation).

[WalkerFit]

Farmers Walks all the way, dead hangs and the tech work that Andy suggests on the Deadlift. For grip check out fat bar work- check out Brooks Kubik's "Dinosaur Training"

If any gym near you has "farmers bars" for deadlifts then these can reaaly boost your "brute strength" whilst promoting good form and allowing you to refine your technique with sub maximal loads on traditional barbell.

Keep us posted with your progress