[Will Walshe]

Yep, same hormone nicky. One of the interesting things about all these hormones is they can have dramatically different effects depending on what time of day they're realeased at (and whether you're asleep or awake).

Dug out my copy of lights out since writing that post, btw: turns out it's 3 1/2 of continuous melatonin production at night before prolactin starts getting released, and it's thought that 6 hours of prolactin production is necessary for optimal immune function (amoung a bunch of other stuff). So sleep for 9.5 hours a night if you want to avoid getting sick.

I look forward to someday having so little to do that I can spend 9.5 hours asleep, but it's fun to have a goal to aim for.

[Matt M]

Can I use that post as an excuse to not wake up for when Debbie does her night feeds, Will? (she's breastfeeding exclusively). Luke is not a good sleeper. He can wake every hour through the night.

[Will]

So can you tell me why I only get lucid dreams?

They were cool at first but they're really annoying now I wake up and sometimes I have memeries ofconversations and stuff but I can't remember if I dreamed them or not.

[Andy]

lay off the damn crack man

[Will]

lol seriously its so annoying my sleep is so weird apparently I talk in it pretty much every night, have acted out my dreams (Started taking a shower once-that woke me up pretty quickly).

A less/more funny one depending on your sense of humour I p*ssed on my playstation and broke it. Sometimes I see myself from my ceiling lying in my bed and other times I swear I see things in my room-ring girl is a common one. She scares me so much.

[Will Walshe]

Matt - You can certainly try...I think head injuries also have a negative effect on your health though

Will - I have absolutely no idea. I'm gonna fall back on my standard mantra of fish oil, magnesium and more sleep.

[Chet]

Paul, on Aug 24 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

My first comment disappeared.

I'd just like to reiterate that medical studies have consistently shown that those who sleep 5 hours a night or less on a regular basis are likely to die earlier than those who regularly sleep for 7 or more.

I didn't delete it

Just missed it when I was transferring posts, so it was still on my trog.

Done now.

[Chet]

Will Walshe, on Aug 24 2008, 01:51 PM, said:

The take home message is that good sleep is at least as important as good nutrition and good training in the persuit of health and fitness. It doesn't make much sense to persue the extreme minuate of any one or two of them if the third is massively out of whack, it's what my mother would refer to as "chasing mice around the skirting boards while ignoring the bloody great elephant in the middle of the room".

VERY interesting stuff.
Thanks for the input Will W.
Thanks for the hassle Nicky/Paul

As valid as interesting as the factual stuff is, TBH the above is the thing that made most sense to me, as it's arguably what I do. I'm forever tinkering with Zone stuff, lol - often bouncing ideas off Will too. Will - I'm thinking you wrote this bit with more than a nod in my general direction...

As for my personal situation and actually making changes - well, I will....experiment. Have done before, but will try and make it a bit more formal.

BTW - last night, got a whole load of sleep - probably double what I usually get. Woke up feeling pretty damn rough. Have also napped twice today - very unusual! Hmmmmmmm. TBH I'm feeling sh*te this evening! I'm sure there's other factors at play etc...its just funny 'cos its often how I feel on a "normal" nights sleep - rubbish and needing to sleep more?! Strange. Lol.

[Chet]

Lol.

Maybe, mate

[Matt M]

Yeah, you need to get about a week's normal sleep under your belt before it'll seem 'normal'. You're probably feeling groggy like if one slept in very late on a weekend.

I used to love my sleep. I was taking ZMA for a while and that sucked me into a black hole for about 8 hours. Loved it. I am really down on stamina and endurance (even 5k is tough ATM) which I put down to really broken sleep.

[nickyhusky]

Of course you feel crap after one longer sleep, like Matt said. You need a good few nights' catch-up before it improves. Try it.

I quite fancy trying ZMA sometime. Maybe I will next time I get insomnia!

@ Will - you're just a weirdo! Bugger about the playstation though eh

[Will Walshe]

Chet, on Aug 25 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

Will - I'm thinking you wrote this bit with more than a nod in my general direction...

Well, maybe a slight twitch of the head

Chet, on Aug 25 2008, 07:39 PM, said:

BTW - last night, got a whole load of sleep - probably double what I usually get. Woke up feeling pretty damn rough. Have also napped twice today - very unusual! Hmmmmmmm. TBH I'm feeling sh*te this evening! I'm sure there's other factors at play etc...its just funny 'cos its often how I feel on a "normal" nights sleep - rubbish and needing to sleep more?! Strange. Lol.

What you're describing is sometimes referred to as a melatonin hangover. Your body is supposed to realease a dose of cortisol when you're about to wake up to halt melatonin production and give you a little hit of dopamine to make you alert and ready to deal with the mornings foraging and predator evasion (or making breakfast and driving to work, depending on your millennium). If your day-night rhythms are all messed up for whatever reason though, this mightn't happen as effectively or at the right time, leading to too much melatonin knocking around your body in the morning making you all sleepy and cranky.

Like everyone else said, it'll go away when your brain gets used to the idea of sleeping for a little longer.

[Miles CF Hove]

I've ordered Lights out-Robb Wolf recommends everybody reads this every autumn. Thanks Will for you input in this-you have excellent knowledge mate.

[Chet]

Aye, cheers for your time and effort on this Will - great knowledge

[Paul]

"Exhausted drivers kill both themselves and others, and driving whilst over-tired is
effectively no different to driving whilst over the legal limit for blood
alcohol concentration."

"When you are tired, your ability to judge your own performance is
impaired, so you may well think that you are better able to cope with
driving than you actually are. In fact, the more tired you are, the less
able you are to accurately assess your own performance."

Both taken from:
http://www.rcplondon...cc8cc1734f1.pdf

in relation to the effects on night-shift workers of sleep deprivation.

[Miles CF Hove]

And that was written at 4.35 am!

[Will Walshe]

lol, busted!

[Paul]

I work nights! Of course it was written at 4.35am! I'm asleep from 7.30am - 4pm!

[Chet]

Check out this book review:

http://www.modernfor...omise-of-sleep/

And I quote...

'Who Should Read This Book?

* Anyone with an interest in how sleep affects health
* Anyone with sleep issues'

Think I should get me a copy...