[Davie]

Just wondering what you guys thought on these two videos....and the resulting comments on ROM

David Morgan - Olympic Weightlifter doing the King Kong workout

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fHEkokQSGmU

Second is Speal vs Khalipa

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Lo5hnONjRSs

Here is what I see - David Morgan, doesnt get full ROM on all of the exercises. Thats obvious. In the Speal video, I think most of the butterfly pull ups from Speal are no where near over the bar and his push ups are belly to the floor, not chest, and he barely gets his hips open on the air squats.

Now - what is really getting my back up is how David Morgan gets totally shot down because of his ROM yet Speal doesnt. Is this because David Morgan isnt a CrossFit name? Is it because the comments page on CF.com gets moderated to the point of censorship?

Or am I just a cynical old man that is getting jaded with main page CrossFit?

[greg]

chest to floor could be the bottom of his ribcage? I sometime count that if I'm being lax...

Also the argument with the butterflies is that the peak of the pull is when you are a distance from the bar, not when your chin is closest.

this is purely devils advocate, I'll check the videos later when I finish work


Agree with the moderation, it's going a bit 1984 in crossfit at the moment. If there methodologies are correct then they should have nothing to hide. Perhaps user based voting of messages would be a better way to go, with the people choosing whether to show or hide a comment (web 2.0 style).

[mrbourgot]

IMO David Morgan got shot down as he's not a crossfitter. There were also also of comments such as "what's his barbara time?" as if an ex Olympian would care

I remember a similar thing when a competitive O lifter did Grace in about 1:20.

These videos also expose the inherent problem with competing at exercising. The lines of what's legit are open to intepretation. If a track runner goes out of their lane they get disqualified. Jason Khalipa's heavy Grace in the 08 finals was far from legit IMO but he still won.

None of this takes away from how impressive it is the way Speal manhandles 155lb whilst weighing 145

[Davie]

Im in no what criticising either athlete, they are and always will be far ahead of anything I could ever do.

What I am criticising is the hypocrisy of the comments regarding the ROM - why does one person get their technique ripped apart simply because they arent a CrossFitter and another person doesnt

Just ignore me, im getting cranky

[Franz29]

It's because he isn't a CrossFit name IMHO. If he became a name, all would be forgiven and people would be rushing to try this "new" style of muscle up.

I question the timing of posting the article (and even the need to do so); He did this almost 9 months ago (http://www.funckey.co.uk/forums/topic/1531-dave-morgan-beats-josh-everett-king-kong/page__hl__dave%20morgan__fromsearch__1) an it was even discussed on the CF forums. I know the article is fairly recent (3/19/10 IIRC, looks like the site is down - CF bombs maybe ) but still, why stir up the hornets nest now?

They can be a fickle bunch over there, although there are some cooler heads - the one guy that said to the others that just because they are "Level 1" qualified they feel they can rip form to shreds are wrong for example. Trouble is, the mods over there are extremely zealous; say anything not toeing the party line and it usually gets deleted - same on the forums.

TBH, I question the whole need for chest to floor on a push-up as proof of full range of motion anyway. Yes there needs to be a standard, but the military style fist under the chest standard is more than sufficient in my eyes and demonstrates a fully open chest and active shoulder girdle. Chest to floor forces the scapulae to fully retract and then extend to initiate the "up", which isn't the point of the exercise; you can't even argue that the extra couple of CM drastically alters the power output which seems to be the measure du jour right now.

[Franz29]

chris, on 24 March 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

As far as i can see Dave Morgan competed in a sport at the highest level where there is metculous attention to form and have judges determining the success of the lift, on the other hand did the crossfit games not have a clean and jerk or some such lift which then became a anyhow overhead when the form was not great and the judges just people press ganged out of the crowd. Pot Kettle/people in glass houses/Judge not, that you be not judged.......

Well, they weren't "press ganged"; As far as I am aware they were all CF trainers and for the most part members of the "training team", but yes the lifts were b*stardised versions that wouldn't be counted in an adjudicated weightlifting comp. Playing devil's advocate for a moment though, they did call it a clean and anyhow over head at the event so they don't call it a C&J per-se which means the form comments aren't really valid, but yes, a "Grace" for example has suffered changed "rules" to account for those that can't do it with correct form - and we all know how important it is to do all the workouts "as RX'd"

Of course that argument becomes invalid again in the 2009 event; there the event was clearly labeled a max snatch, but pressing and even knee to floor contact was allowable which was laughable.....

Pot meets kettle as you say.

At the end of the day I guess it is incumbent on us as trainers and athletes to enforce consistent exercise parameters between workouts so "our guys" know exactly what is expected at the gym. If I programme a clean and jerk then it should be a clean and jerk; if I wanted a clean and thruster I would say so.

[Franz29]

Aye, I think we are agreeing on these things.

[FK Pimp]

I think this is all quite normal at this stage in the CF "competition". While I agree that it is "exercising" it is made of different sports so in essense can be a sport itself (see triathlon, biathlon, decathlon, modern panthlon etc). I can guarantee you that when they started run races back in the day they probably didn't have lanes or timers to check false starts. As time progresses there will be a requirement to properly govern what each movement is (ground to overhead anyhow as an example) which outlines what is truely required. Form in this context is actually not the point at all. If something is for time then the movements need to be expressed in a way that doesn't dictate the form. If something is for weight then form is a critical factor and should be judged as per that particular discipline (oly rules for snatch, C&J. PLing rules for dead, BP, squat etc).

As for folk flaming others whether for form or for the shoes they wear - that's just the internet. for every lover there are ten haters for everything.

[Mark]

Quote

Or am I just a cynical old man that is getting jaded with main page CrossFit?

Mate you are just seeing what I saw a couple of years ago. When you put technique against the clock it is never going to be a level playing field with these type of movements. Thats why it can never be truly judged.