[absolution]

Yeah. I am a member of the NPA which stipulates that you have to be natural for life. I do however think some bend this rule. The BNBF is natural for 10 years I think. Again, the odd person tries to sneak through. We are randomly drug tested at every show. I have been tested about 6 times including 2 polygraphs.
Natural Bodybuilding is probably cleaner than most sports although feds like NABBA and UKBFF have no drug rules so those guys are as clean as chimney sweeps.
The tan is pretty horrendous in daylight. The stage lights do fade you out though if you dont wear it. Even the black guys tan up.

[greg]

absolution, on Sep 16 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Yeah. I am a member of the NPA which stipulates that you have to be natural for life. I do however think some bend this rule. The BNBF is natural for 10 years I think. Again, the odd person tries to sneak through. We are randomly drug tested at every show. I have been tested about 6 times including 2 polygraphs.
Natural Bodybuilding is probably cleaner than most sports although feds like NABBA and UKBFF have no drug rules so those guys are as clean as chimney sweeps.
The tan is pretty horrendous in daylight. The stage lights do fade you out though if you dont wear it. Even the black guys tan up.

i have heard though that some "natural" guys use growth hormone and insulin, as they don't consider this cheating? (not implying you do!). I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to test for those

[absolution]

Greg
As with every sport, cheats will always try to bend the rules. We have debates every day on the natural forums about the testing procedures. As an amateur, minority sport funds are minimal. We dont get any funding whatsoever from any bodies. All our tests are done to IOC standards and are funded by the fed itself so at the moment the best they offer is urine (NPA) at shows only and the addition of polygraphs (BNBF) at the finals.
All I can assure you is that I am 100% lifetime clean. I use the usual, creatine glutamine, bcaa's, etc but I try not to worry about what every one else is using. I have had it on good authority that some of my competitors (British CHampions) even have taken banned substances and probably still do off season. If they pass the tests though unless someone will name and shame and they admit it there is nothing we can do. We actually found a cheat in 2007 who won the Britain and then admitted he had used in the past. As we are liftetime clean he had to give back his trophies and even a bit of prize money he won (I even got moved up a place from 4th to 3rd in the pro am and an extra £100 as he beat me that year)

I will re iterate as I get the old 'all bodybuilders are on the gear', I concentrate on myself. I dieted for 5 months this year for the Euros. I didnt eat a slice of bread for 5 months nor have any milk, sugar (other than after training), pasta, or any other grains other than oats and rice. I had 2 glasses of wine a week for 10 weeks then none for the last 10 weeks. I ate 1/2 tin of reduced salt and sugar baked beans with my eggs about 10 weeks out and my coach bollocked me. Thatr is what I nneded to do and still placed second..doh!
100% dedication!! Simple. Added to this was my training which included crossfit. I fell out with my wife, my kids and I looked like a skeleton in a tracksuit. Check out my gallery. The ones with shaven head are this year John Heaton

[mrbourgot]

Not sure if this is the right place for this one but it came to mind after reading the dicussion on Absolution's trog.

What sports have you guys competed? What was the drug testing like? And did you suspect any roid issues?

I've competed at a pretty decent amateur level at boxing & kickboxing. I've also competed at Judo, thai boxing and recently O lifting. Never been tested, never even mentioned at an event, including 3 Olympic sports.

When I used to kickbox there were definately some roided at my gym and so presumably many at other gyms. One of the reasons I left.

[absolution]

I think I explained bodybuilding in my other thread. I have friends in lots of sports including Superleague. Professional sports seem to get tested. Rugby league players have to give a time and place every day when they are available to be tested and I imagine pro soccer is the same.
My friends in martial arts never get tested.

I think drugs seems to be creeping into every sport. Do you remember Neil Foulds in snooker on beta blockers to calm his nerves? Cricketers on the gear and even jockeys. Athletics and cycling is rife as is NFL, Baseball and probably boxing. Wasnt Roy Jones Jr on the gear?
I have a friend (wife of a super league player) who played high grade netball in Australia. She said the Olympic team were given mobile phones and told, by the coaching staff if it rings, dont answer it. It means you have been chosen for a drug test. Get out of the country then pick up the message and make your call. Unbelievable huh?

What is the answer? Testing is expensive.
I wish we got tested out of season. I see people on stage and backstage and sigh. I recently got outweighed in a competition by 17kg. I weigh about 81kg ripped. One of my competitors weighs approx 105kg. I am not saying he is on the gear but you always wonder.

[Andy]

Played league at national league 2. Even our guys were getitng tested and that was around 5 years a go.

Funny you should mention australia. Played aussie rules out there in the international cup. None of our guys got tested but the afl guys do get tested but alot of them just don't rock up the next day and pull a sicky. Whatever they are on i couldn't care less. those guys are machines man and the distances they run along with the level of intensity is just unbelievable.

[Gubernatrix]

I compete in powerlifting in an explicitly drug-free fed. In competitions they seem to test the winners and then one or two random others. I've never been tested myself (but if you saw my numbers you wouldn't exactly be concerned!).

There are rumours that people in this fed simply come off the gear a month or so before competition. I wouldn't know! They don't just test for steroids; I know a guy who got a fail (and a 2 year ban) for ephedrine some years ago.

Clearly the expense of testing is an issue - it costs around £80 per test and if you are organising a competition on a shoe string, this is a lot of money.

A friend who organises a strongman competition under IAWA rules (me and Chet went to it recently) does two drug tests, one on the winner and one on another random person. That's all he can afford to do.

[Gubernatrix]

Nice sideburns!

Seriously though, well said.

[absolution]

Sideys on my fat photos?

Believe it or not, they were about 13 years ago and I weighed 16 stone. My waist was 38" and pushing 40". I was training but eating crap and drinking skol as you can see.

Those photos are from 2004-2009. Steady, slow improvements (I hope)

[Mark]

They are another supplement in the world of sports.... Only you can say if you feel that it is cheating or not. As already mentioned people take beta blockers, no body raises an eye brow, surgeons take them. They are in all sports. I have good friends who take them as competetive athletes, they have been tested but they know how to beat the tests. I don't judge them, I'd rather be surrounded by a bunch of dedicated athletes who take steriods than a bunch of p###ed up smacked up coke fuelled kn#b heads, as I'm sure you would to?

As I have said before would you pay £150 for a ticket to the Mr Olympia to see any of us walk on the stage... No, you want to see a monster and that goes for all sports. Cliched it maybe but its true all the same...

Don't blame the player blame the game!

Ban Testing.... Lets see what we can do

[absolution]

Mark

I know what you are saying and I have no objections to anyone taking gear or whatever they want if there is no testing and it is a level playing field. Mr Olympia is just that. I do however prefer physiques such as Heath and Jackson as opposed to Cutler and Coleman.

What I do object to is athletes signing a form saying 'I have never taken a banned substance in my life' and then entering a natural show knowing they are jacked up on all sorts of nonsense. Dont be a coward. Enter the UKBFF or NABBA !
Have you seen 'The Ringer' with Johnny Knoxville? Great film. He pretends to be 'special' so he can enter the 'special games' and his uncle puts a bet on him.

Nuff said

[FK Pimp]

absolution, on Sep 18 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Mark

I know what you are saying and I have no objections to anyone taking gear or whatever they want if there is no testing and it is a level playing field. Mr Olympia is just that. I do however prefer physiques such as Heath and Jackson as opposed to Cutler and Coleman.

What I do object to is athletes signing a form saying 'I have never taken a banned substance in my life' and then entering a natural show knowing they are jacked up on all sorts of nonsense. Dont be a coward. Enter the UKBFF or NABBA !
Have you seen 'The Ringer' with Johnny Knoxville? Great film. He pretends to be 'special' so he can enter the 'special games' and his uncle puts a bet on him.

Nuff said

+1

[Mark]

Hmmmmm taking steriods or pretending to be mentally or physically disabled.. You put that in the same context do you??

If you enter what is said to be a clean event and your not then yes you are cheating.
But please lets all get of our moralistic high horses here, drugs are part of sport thats it and many of your sporting heros are on the gear, its here to stay and thats it, too much money involved for it to ever be any different.

[FK Pimp]

In your opinion mark
I simply don't agree that most of my heroes are on something
and in addition, this is not about moral posturing but about the basis of sport itself.

[absolution]

Mark

I am not sure what we are debating. If someone says 'I am clean' and isnt, its cheating. If someone is never asked, as in pro bodybuilding it isnt cheating and i have no problems with that. We seem to agree so why do you seem to want to get me into an argument. I left the bodybuilding forums to get away from conflict and associate with likeminded people who want to better themselves and help others.
Do you think crossfitters are on the gear? Now there is testing in place surely if they are that is cheating.

[Mark]

I'm not arguing.

Debating.... I have no problem with drugs in sport, not at all. I do agree that if it states a drug free event and you are not then yes, cheating. But as I said it will never stop, it will be in drug free events no matter what the testing policies!!! You know it, I know it.

FK: Here is a rough synopsis of a conversation that I had whilst sitting in a sauna with a British Olympic team member, whose name I forget.

Me: How are the injuries?

Reply: Not to bad.

Me: How are you training wise?

Reply: OK, moving the recovery on with a little help.

Me: Ok, what are you taking?

Reply: Anything I can get my hands on at the moment.


And this individual is seen as a hero.

Are some crossfitters (whatever that is) on the gear? Are you telling me that some are not?

Quote

but about the basis of sport itself

Sport is about the best perfomances, winning and also now more than ever money. Do what it takes to win, and at a high level there is more reason than ever to given to enhancement, the rewards are so great. And the era of gentlmanly sportsmanship never exsisted only in boys own comics.
The basis of sport itself is winning, always has been always will be, its the taking part speech is what is said to make losers feel better.

Cynical you may think so but also backed up with alot of first hand expierience. I have never looked at anything through rose tinted glasses.

And yes my opinion, isn't everything someones opinion?

Absolution, sorry I don't know your real name? Don't be so sensitive.

[absolution]

Mark

My name is John. I dont like people on forums that never reveal their names.

I hear what you are saying. I am also cynical (or realistic) of lots of Olympic athletes. As I said, when coaches are tipping people off for testing. I have read Speed Trap by Charlie Francis. I am not that naive to think that only Ben Johnson was on the gear in that final. I once heard that Alan Wells was the last clean 100m Olympic champion. True??

My grandad and his dad were athletic coaches back in the 1920's-1940's. My grandad at 90 yrs old told me his dad would have given anything to one of his runners if it made him faster. He was always brewing up some concoction in the his kitchen with herbs and plants, etc.

I like sport. I like competing. I love to win and hate to lose. However there are far more losers than winners and if everyone had your attitude that winning is the only thing, most of us with average genetics and no chemical assistance may as well stay at home and play on the wii. I agree, enter every game to win. Could you imagine the London Marathon though. There would be about 8 people in it, 7 of them Kenyan. Sport should be enjoyed by everyone.
There is no simple answer. Doing away with testing all together is just going to turn every sport into 'who has the best chemist.'
Re crossfit. I think some of the guys must be on something but when I look at the likes of Josh Everitt and Pat Barber I dont see them on the gear. Sheer hard work and bloody mindedness surely gets you far in life. A gold medal is not worth my health or my kids respect no matter what. That is not me being sensitive, just honest.

[FK Pimp]

I can only go on what I belive to be right Mark, and I don't believe any of my hero's would feel that they had achieved their pinacle in sport if they had cheated (i.e. taken performance enhancing substances). The rules in most sports are pretty clear - if you take drugs you are cheating. The fact that most low level sports can't afford it and some high level sports can't catch all the drug takers just mean it is a greater challengs not that it is "right".

If they changed the rules it would split every sport in two - the clean movement and the non-clean movement (this thread is a case in point). I would not pay a bit of notice to the later. As is your want, you would rather see the former. fair do's - eah to their own but I don't tend to spend any time with/give any credence to people who support the BNP for the reason that I don't agree with their inclinations, views or conceptions. I would see this as being a similar direction.