[Ben]

So i've been crossfit training for a while and have had some great results, 78kg bodyweight, about 9-10% bf (i'm 5'11), and my strength has gone up with a 130kg back squat, 105kg front squat, 72.5kg strict press, 100kg bench, and 165kg SLDL, however i want to get to training for size about a month from now, and start my journey of massiveness

I know the first thing i need to change is my diet, have been eating ~1800cals a day with CF so need to almost double that and will am for just around 3000. sound good?

I will struggle trying to keep this as clean as possible. But might have to start eating pasta, bread, milk and more oats. And will purchase a good quality (lean) weight gainer

I will be following a variety of routines, ~8 weeks each, going from Chad Waterbury's TBT routine, to an upper lower, to a body part split, then a push pull split etc and just continuously changing it up.

Any pointers, regarding diet would be very appreciated, rough %s of protein, carbs, fats, cals etc, Do's and Don'ts etc

Thanks,

Ben.

[marcus clarke]

Ben, can I ask why you are switching to a 'massive' prog.

Will you still be doing functional movements, or the machine dicated 3 sets of 10s routines!!!!

good luck mate. Try and still keep with the basics; deadlift, squats, bench etc...

I'm not pro CF all the time, just never found anything that benefits me better.

[Ben]

Oh no no no, will definitely be sticking to big compound moves, squat, deadlift, clean and press, pullups, dips, some benching, etc
With heavy loads and various rep ranges, from 3x5 all the way up to 10x3

It is just a change of interest, i don't play any sport specifically, just a bit of basketball once a week, but that was just because it fitted in with my current goal of decreased body fat.

[mrbourgot]

Do: Squats and milk
Don't: much else

[Ben]

Thanks, I will be squatting minimum of 2x a week, once back, once front, both heavy.
And will be drinking lots of milk.

Any more pointers?

Anyone know of a cheap good weight gainer type supplement

[greg]

are you going to be eating lots of carbs, or bulking with a zone type diet? (ala robb wolf and performance menu)

[Ben]

A couple of bowls of oats, with ~120g of oats each

Some pasta, a few potatoes, some but not much bread. Lots of milk.

Apples/Bananas throughout the day.

Which carbs are good for lean bulking? bread, potatoes, pasta etc make me fat! i'm up for a slow steady bulk if it means i keep my leanness (it's a word)

[Schwinners]

mrbourgot, on Aug 16 2009, 09:42 PM, said:

Do: Squats and milk
Don't: much else

Agree with that! Am 2 weeks into Squats and Milk, and gained 5.4lbs so far (with 0.3% bf increase - Tanita, so not accurate but still on same belt loop!)

[marcus clarke]

I find creatine worked into a diet helps me with strength gains. I use NO XPLODE at the moment for a pre workout boost (has creatine in it)

Starting next month I am going onto an all in powder, CYCLONE (protein, HMB, creatine).

[Chet]

Ben, on Aug 17 2009, 05:45 PM, said:

Anyone know of a cheap good weight gainer type supplement

Milk

And BodiTronics MA of course

[Ben]

Thanks, just got some creatine Mono hope it helps

And Chet, how would you compare Boditronics Mass Attack to this product
http://www.perfectbo...-kilo-257-p.asp

PBN MG
Pros:
Cheaper
More Protein /100g

BT MA
Pros:
More Cals
More Carbs /100g

Cons:
Expensive

Am i missing the 'get what you pay for' ingredient

[Rich]

I've never really seen the point in a "mass gainer" product. They are essentially just well-marketed products where you pay ridiculous amounts of money to get extra calories down your neck. You can get "extra" calories by just increasing your portion sizes, or by eating more meals. Milk is still one of the best approaches out there for upping your calorie intake. Whenever I've done linear strength training in the past, I've just eaten normally and had a couple of blended shakes a day (whey, milk, coconut milk, olive oil, some fruit). It's worked really well, but I guess whatever approach you can find that you can maintain, or which fits in with your lifestyle, you should run with.

[Gubernatrix]

Some people just find it hard to eat that much food. I know of people who needed to be on something like 4,000 or more calories a day to build muscle and it was a real effort. I wouldn't like to have to eat 4,000 cals a day.

Bear in mind that these are people who don't exactly eat a great deal in the first place.

[greg]

Ben, on Aug 17 2009, 06:03 PM, said:

Which carbs are good for lean bulking? bread, potatoes, pasta etc make me fat! i'm up for a slow steady bulk if it means i keep my leanness (it's a word)

if you're zoning then robb wolf suggests increasing blocks, and upping fat blocks to 3-5x

[Schwinners]

Ben - I echo what Rich says about mass gainers. I'm gaining mass just fine without one. I am eating 4000 cals a day (current BW is about 76kg), and getting half of that figure from 8 pints a day (one gallon - GOMAD). A great advantage of using milk is that because it is liquid form, you don't feel like you are consuming as many calories as if you were eating solids, thus making it easier to reach the high calorie numbers.

My carbs (aside from that the milk provides) comes mainly from sweet potato and beans/pulses.

Rich - glad I'm not the only one who puts olive oil in with my whey!

[Rich]

Olive oil and whey is brilliant! Good with coconut milk too... can get a thousand calories down the hatch dead easy.

I remember when I did the GOMAD. Started off with 8 pints and then realised that a US gallon which Rip is referring to is actually just over 6 of our imperial pints. Or something like that.

[Schwinners]

Rich, on Aug 18 2009, 07:23 PM, said:

Olive oil and whey is brilliant! Good with coconut milk too... can get a thousand calories down the hatch dead easy.

I remember when I did the GOMAD. Started off with 8 pints and then realised that a US gallon which Rip is referring to is actually just over 6 of our imperial pints. Or something like that.

Yeah I realised that the US gallon was different, but I like drinking the stuff and it's easy calories

[Ben]

Don't think i'm going to zone it, but will stay quite healthy/clean

Thanks Rich and Schwinners, will drink lots of milk dont worry

But the Weight gainer may be more convenient and saves me having to keep going to buy more milk.

I'm guessing then as long as i'm training with good intensity and 3-4x a week, with compound moves then that will work 'training-wise'

Paired with a fair few cals 3000+ from good foods, lots of water

And obviously a fair amount of sleep, ~8 hours every night.

Then i should be golden?

[DanM]

Ben, on Aug 18 2009, 11:49 PM, said:

Don't think i'm going to zone it, but will stay quite healthy/clean

Thanks Rich and Schwinners, will drink lots of milk dont worry

But the Weight gainer may be more convenient and saves me having to keep going to buy more milk.

I'm guessing then as long as i'm training with good intensity and 3-4x a week, with compound moves then that will work 'training-wise'

Paired with a fair few cals 3000+ from good foods, lots of water

And obviously a fair amount of sleep, ~8 hours every night.

Then i should be golden?

And keep stress levels as low as possible, cortisol has a catabolic effect

[Ben]

Thats the sort of tips i'm after

Never knew that, thanks a lot Dan!